Talk: Manual of Style/Archive

Older issues that have been resolved are archived here.

Song Lyrics[]

Many of the song have the lyrics in italics and spoken words in regular type. For the Manual of Style, I have recommended it be the other way around. In a song, people sing more often than they speak, and italics are a little harder to read than regular type, so it should be used sparingly.

I have also recommended that full punctuation be used in the lyrics. This is not the traditional way of writing lyrics, but it looks better when it is done.

If no one has any objections, we should go through the songs and update them to match the new style. — RRabbit42 19:51, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Character links[]

After the problems we had with the anonymous IP user going in and changing all the references to Buford's last name after Swampy gave us the correct spelling, we've been trying to make use of shorter redirects. For example, using [[Phineas]] instead of [[Phineas Flynn|Phineas]].

We currently have one or more anonymous IP users who are going in and expanding them back out. They may think they are being helpful, but they are making more work for us (definitely me) by having to use the Undo function to restore the shorter redirects.

I've added this information to the Links section. — RRabbit42 14:50, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Song title capitalization[]

The issue came up recently about whether song titles should have each word capitalized. Examples:

Ready for the Bettys = episode
Ready For The Bettys = song
Ready for the Bettys (song) = song
The Ballad of Badbeard = episode
The Ballad of Badbeard (song) = song

This rule was never formally adopted, so we do not have The Ballad Of Badbeard to designate the song. In addition, we also have a new song called Christmas is Starting Now instead of Christmas Is Starting Now.

The subject is also complicated by the fact that some CDs list their songs in all capitals (READY FOR THE BETTYS), some have each word capitalized, some do not capitalize unimportant words, and some have a mix of these on the same CD. Example of the latter:

from ABBA GOLD: GREATEST HITS

Take a Chance on Me
The Name Of The Game

I vote that if we see an official song title listing from Disney that isn't contradicted by anything else, such as when it's released on CD, we go by the title listing. When there is any question as to how to capitalize a song, we apply the same rules as we do for episodes:

Capitalize the first word of the song.
Do not capitalize less-important words like "a", "the", "in", et cetera (except if they are the first word of the song).
When the song title is the same as the episode, format the song title the same as the episode and add "(song)" at the end of it.
It is better to write out ''[[The Ballad of Badbeard (song)|The Ballad of Badbeard]]'' than ''[[The Ballad Of Badbeard]]'' because that makes it clear to all editors that you are referring to the song. People that don't know there is a difference between uppercase and lowercase letters in page names might think that's a typo and change it to "[[The Ballad of Badbeard]]".

— RRabbit42 (talk) 18:51, December 11, 2009 (UTC)

That plan sounds good. What does everyone else think? The Flash ^{talk} 22:54, December 19, 2009 (UTC)

Time for formal adoption[]

Since there has been almost no discussion on these policies and only a couple of new things have been added in the last 6 months, I think it's time to formally adopt the Manual of Style after the subject of song title capitalization is settled. — RRabbit42 (talk) 18:51, December 11, 2009 (UTC)

I'm surprised we haven't adopted it yet. We've used it and linked to it since it's been up, so we should just count it as official. The Flash ^{talk} 22:54, December 19, 2009 (UTC)

Discussion will cease at 11:59pm on Saturday, January 9, 2010 (UTC). There will be no vote, decision will be made by consensus.

This should be formally adopted since it's been used as policy for more than a year now without much incident. There has been no protest against these rules and they seem to work very well. There may need to be a tweak here or there in the future, but the bulk of it has been followed and used as official anyways. —Topher (talk) 20:59, January 4, 2010 (UTC)

Adopted[]

The discussion period has now ended. The Manual of Style has been adopted as an official policy for this wiki. — RRabbit42 (talk) 01:19, January 10, 2010 (UTC)

Song title capitalization - formal vote[]

I have seen the following formats for song titles:

Every word capitalized (Let's Go To The Dance, Right Now)
Only important words capitalized (Let's Go to the Dance, Right Now)
Every word in lowercase letters (let's go to the dance, right now)
Every word in uppercase letters (LET'S GO TO THE DANCE, RIGHT NOW)
Every word in uppercase letters without punctuation (LET S GO TO THE DANCE RIGHT NOW)

In one case, the same CD used more than one of these formats when listing its songs. If there was consistency in how songs were listed, we wouldn't have to come up with our own standard. There isn't, so the area below in blue is my proposed standard. It will be added to the "Naming Articles" section. — RRabbit42 (leave a message) 04:39, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

Song titles

When looking at songs on an album or a registration site like BMI, the song titles may be displayed in a number of ways. To avoid these inconsistencies, song titles will follow the same format as episode titles.

Each word will be capitalized except for minor words like "a", "an", "is", "the", "to", et cetera, with the first word in the title always capitalized.

Song titles should be italicized rather than surrounded by quote marks to distinguish it from an episode. Example: Ain't Got Rhythm instead of "Ain't Got Rhythm".

When more than one official source is available for a song title, the following order will be used to determine which song title is used:

A commercial release, such as a CD
A message from Dan Povenmire or Jeff "Swampy" Marsh
A Disney press release
The BMI registered song title

When a song has the same name as another page, the following will be used to determine which gets priority:

Episodes
Big Ideas
Songs

In this situation, the song page should be named with "(song)" after it in lowercase letters.
Example: The Ballad of Badbeard (song)

When displaying a song like this, use the following code:
''[[The Ballad of Badbeard (song)|The Ballad of Badbeard]]''

Recommendations/adjustments[]

To make a recommendation for a change, enter it here and sign your name. Adjustments can be made until August 7th, 2010.

No changes were proposed. Proceding to a vote. — RRabbit42 (leave a message) 17:59, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

Voting[]

To approve or reject this change, cast your vote here and sign your name. Voting will end at 23:59 UTC on September 25, 2010, regardless of whether or not enough votes have been meet policy voting requirements. (A four week voting period will be equivalent of extending the standard voting period of insufficient votes have not been cast.)

Support: As before, I created the proposal so I support it. It will provide a consistent look and feel for the song titles. — RRabbit42 (leave a message) 18:06, August 29, 2010 (UTC)
Support: I agree. An absolute standard for song titles makes sense. Pammazola 23:01, August 29, 2010 (UTC)
Support: A well-written proposal I see no problems with. Mobo85 02:25, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

Adoption[]

The result was three votes in favor with zero votes against. The modification has been adopted. — RRabbit42 (leave a message) 18:10, November 26, 2010 (UTC)

Song punctuation[]

I propose that we switch back to using quotation marks to punctuate songs. My reasons are:

Quotation marks are a universally agreed on standard. If we follow every other formatting standard, then I do not see why songs have to be an exception.
Italics are for larger works. This is even stated in our MOS.
We only switched to italics because it was convenient for us. If we are striving to a professional encyclopedia-style wiki (and only in style; we're trying to be look like one, but we're also definitely not an encyclopedia), then we shouldn't break international standards just because of convenience.
Songs occupy a large part of our page count, and are also amongst our most viewed pages. Our usage of italics quickly shows a "weakness" in "wiki quality" whenever someone views a song page.
A number of high-profile wikis and websites comply with this standard. Among them are Wikipedia, Wookiepedia, Memory Alpha, Half-Life Wiki, James Bond Wiki, Kingdom Hearts Wiki, Metal Gear Wiki, Family Guy Wiki, Final Fantasy Wiki, Sonic Wiki, Zelda Wiki, Xenopedia, Adventure Time Wiki, Gravity Falls Wiki, Simpsons Wiki, TV Tropes, and New York Times. There are more but I think my point is clear. (This is something I really hate resorting to; I do not believe that we should do something just because other wikis or websites do. However, this situation is different. I only added this to help my cause.)

I had already discussed this with RRabbit42. But having the (sort of) approval of one bureaucrat does not automatically grant me the right to revise the MOS, even if I am an adminstrator. Changes to the MOS, heck, changes to wiki policy in general should always involve the community. And so, I created this. —— WiKiAN 15:47, September 2, 2014 (UTC)

Voting[]

Cast your vote here and sign your name. Voting ends at 00:00 UTC on September 21, 2014. Just so everyone knows, something like, "it will take forever to update every song", is not a valid reason for opposing votes. This is because, if it comes down to it, I alone will be enough to update everything (help would be appreciated, though). —— WiKiAN 15:47, September 2, 2014 (UTC)

Support[]

I am the one who is proposing this change, so I am definitely going to support it. —— WiKiAN 15:47, September 2, 2014 (UTC)
I agree, i never saw the italics in the song very well... I'll help you doing this work when i have time, if this proposal would be agreed. Andre drago (talk) 16:52, September 2, 2014 (UTC)
I agree, if we're going to have song pages, they should be pages that everyone like to read. Also, I might try to use AutoWikiBrowser to help get the song pages organized. Also, what about the transcripts? They have almost the same format as the song lyrics. - IvyLover (talk | block | user rights | contributions) 02:35, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
I will support this because I think we should follow what other wikis do regarding this. It will take a lot of work to get songs changed from being italicized to having quotes put around them but it is what will need to happen. I can help you with it as well but I probably will do a little bit here and there, but will not have tons of time to do whole lot with changing it. P&F fan92 (talk) 13:40, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
If you support this proposal, add your reason here and sign your vote.

Oppose[]

If you oppose this proposal, add your reason here and sign your vote.

Comments[]

I'm going to stay neutral on this one. And speaking of transcripts, a Manual of Style for formatting them is still in the works. ~KinHikari ♪ Minogasenai akiramenai. Yume ni todoku made wa. ♪ 23:24, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
If this is approved, it won't be hard to make the changes. With over 400 songs, it would take a little bit of time to set it up, but the program I use with the Ferbot account can handle it just fine. Feed it the list of songs into the "what links here" option, give it the pattern to match and replace, then check the first dozen or so edits to make sure they're correct before letting it run while I'm at work or whatnot. —RRabbit42 (leave a message) 05:32, September 9, 2014 (UTC)
Just reminding everyone about this since voting will end soon. If anyone still has anything to say, then now would be the time to say it. —— WiKiAN 08:48, September 20, 2014 (UTC)

Result[]

Voting has ended. 4-Support, 0-Oppose. This proposal is officially approved. The MOS will now be updated to fit this new change. —— WiKiAN 15:35, September 21, 2014 (UTC)